Identity 101: Part 3 - Latina, Latinx, Latine, none of the above?
An IG Live Series around Identity and Meaning
How do I define what my identity is? How do I know if I have ‘privilege’? What does it mean to be seen?
Linet & Brenda broadcast a series of laid back conversations where they explored the waters of identity, privilege, and anti-oppression work. These open discussions led audiences through an exploration of themselves, their relationships, and how they move through the world, culminating in a call to engage in anti-oppression through acknowledging the challenges, realities, and hope of our place in the world.
Free to the public, this series of open conversations on Instagram offered a prism of thought, feeling, and learning to lead audiences through an exploration of themselves.
Click this link for ID101 Part 1 video and transcript. Check out ID101 Part 2 video here.
Brenda, she/her(s), is a full-time Anti-Oppression Consultant & Facilitator. Born in Mexico City, but partially raised in India, traveled the world, middle school in South Carolina, high school in Wales, and college in Massachusetts, Brenda identifies as a queer transnational woman of color. After Hampshire College, Brenda experienced diverse roles in advocacy as a youth program coordinator at a refugee resettlement organization, later as a bilingual counselor for survivors and victims of intimate partner violence, and finally as peer recovery coach. Brenda built In.Visible Paradigms to support white allies in their connection to the work, community, and movement of anti-oppression. Her goal is to go beyond the basics and facilitate transformative spaces for white allies to move forward in the journey of turning silence into language and action (Audre Lorde). Brenda is also involved with the Anti-Racism Collaborative and the Equity Consultants of Colorado.
Linet (she/her) is the Co-Executive Director of the Unconscious Bias Project (UBP). Linet was born in Bogotá, Colombia and grew up in Nigeria, France, Venezuela, and completed her education in the US. She is a PhD scientist turned diversity, equity and inclusion professional. Throughout life, she witnessed and experienced the harm caused by toxic workplaces, discrimination, and bullying. This fueled her passion to grow more inclusive and equitable spaces including co-founding the Texas A&M University Language Learning Institute, co-developing the first annual diversity workshop for UC San Francisco’s graduate division, and advocating for childcare grants for graduate student parents. Her passion became her career when she co-founded UBP, where she now works with her co-ED, volunteers, advisors, and community members to bring creative, accessible, and evidence-based programs to reduce bias and unconscious bias to workplaces and classrooms centering empowerment and sustainable action.
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Transcript
Brenda 00:00
Latinx, Latina, Latino, Is it offensive? None of these above, none of the above make sense? Or is it just semantics? Hi, everyone, my name is Brenda Moreno, I use she/ella pronouns. I'm the founder of In.Visible Paradigms. And this is sort of the, this is exactly where we're going to have our conversation exists and today is what parts of us feel uncomfortable, naming in terms of our relationship. And what parts of us feel really excited. Join us today in the last of our three part series. With LINET, from Unconscious Bias Project, and myself from In.Visible Paradigms, hope you're all doing well. And we wanted to also allow this time to just settle in and reflect on parts of your identity that have felt unseen, maybe silenced maybe parts of your identity that are still being processed, you know, pending articulation, exploring the silences. This is our conversation with LINET from Unconscious Bias Project. And myself. We're waiting for her to join. So we offer this time, just a reflection to see what parts of yourself are joining our space to get today, what parts of yourself do you often feel like you have to negotiate? And leave behind? We're happy that you're here. I think.... There we go.
Linet 01:51
Hi. I seem a little cut off actually. And my internet's not super great. Okay, we can work through that We're gonna work through it. Yeah. Hi, Brenda! How are you?
Brenda 02:07
I’m okay, it's kind of bittersweet. This is the last. And it feels, I think with these conversations, you can never really put a bow on it. You can never really tie it off and be like, here's the closeure. And today we're talking about Latina, Latina, Latino, or none of the above. And it feels like such an opening, like a continuation. So I'm feeling both excited and a little sad. But also, it is what it is, you know, like, this is part of it. How are you? How are you doing?
Linet 02:40
Absolutely. I think I wish I could really show you the outside right now. But it's, it's a little cloudy, it's warm. It's a little bit humid. I know that's strange for New Mexico, but it's a little humid. There's some sunshine, you know, I can see some birds outside. And it just sort of feels like that inside. So there's a lot of things that we're juggling at the Unconscious Bias Project. There are some things that I'm working on in my personal life. And yeah, so a little bit of that bittersweet. I'm thinking about this conversation, what a joy it's been to get to know you some more, and what excellent, you know, questions we've posed for each other we've thought of and however, I think like we're really pushing each other in a way to be like, okay, so what does this actually mean? Like when we're talking about it with each other, when we're talking about it to our clients, when we're, you know, I don't think that we often get that space, in some ways to really think about ourselves, some folks have to confront it because of their reality. But we don't often just have a, I'm going to choose to just sit here and explore at this moment. So I really appreciate that that piece that we're returning to, that's my sunshine. That's like coming through the sun. It's beautiful.
Brenda 04:20
Yeah, let's get to it, but I was gonna say like, let's, let’s continue to step in in this unfolding. Do you want to do the next part?
Linet 04:30
Oh, yeah. Um, I realized I didn't introduce myself. So hi, everybody. My name is Linet Mera. Linet Mera. I am the Co-Executive Director of the Unconscious Bias Project. And I'm really grateful to be here. My pronouns are she/hers. Maybe we covered that in one of the earlier ones. And I'm currently calling in from Las Cruces, New Mexico, that is on unceded Land of the currently three tribes - Piro, Manso, and Tiwa tribes of New Mexico. And I mentioned that piece, I do my best to always remember this piece of land. But I specifically thought a lot about it in terms of what we're going to talk about today, because your identity and even concepts of race and of Latinidad and Latinx, and all these pieces are very interconnected with our history. And for both you and I, that history has to do with indigeneity. And we'll get that's just a teaser. So we'll definitely talk a little bit more about that. And before we got into it, I did want to plug that we are we are open and able to receive your support. Brenda and I are sort of doing this work here and - not sort of - we are doing this work here because we love it. We love it. We want to do this work, we want people to push themselves, we're pushing ourselves, we really want to make this space for all of us to explore our own identities to think about ourselves with a little more intentionality than maybe we would normally. And you can support us in doing this work. So we have a URL where you can go to donate. So Unconscious Bias Project is a nonprofit. So if you donate through this link, that Brenda just put into the chat. Thanks, Brenda. If you are able to support us with any amount that you feel able to, if you aren't, don't have the resources to give right now. Seriously, no judgment, we know it's still the pandemic, please do share it with some folks, in this particular collaboration with visible paradigms is part of a broader set of outreach events in the community that the Unconscious Bias Project is doing with several of our community partners. So any amount you can do to support us or any that you can, any folks that you can share to, or any network that you can share to is really going towards supporting these kinds of, you know, free open to the public resources and discussions for everybody. So please head over there. And if you want to learn more about sponsoring our series, specifically, or the entire outreach campaign, you can go to UB project.org/resources/breakingbreadbias, or you can search Breaking Bread and Bias and you can find that information. Okay. With that piece said, I am so excited. So with that being said, I think we should all just sort of like settle into our seats and our spaces, I'm going to guide us through about a one minute breathing sort of connection to our body. And it's really just a reminder to sort of reset and resource because we're talking about identity, it can get uncomfortable. I don't expect you might, but you might get triggered, you know, maybe a memory that you had might come up suddenly and it's like oh my gosh. So you know have water if you need to take space, walk away, come back. Ah, great. stretchy, something to do with your hands. You know, that's totally fine. And know that we hope to eventually have this recording on our websites. And my awesome Co-ED Alexis has been doing some hard work on getting transcripts for all of the videos that we're going to have. So you can you can also read it later. You can come back to it. Or meditate on it. So we're here for you. Okay, so let's take a minute to sort of arrive. If you want to close your eyes, close your eyes, you really want them half-open, you want to leave them open, it's totally up to you. Maybe take this opportunity to not stare at the screen and just take a few inhales, exhale, sensing the temperature of the air as it enters, as it leaves. Notice the changes in your body when you're breathing. Any changes in your chest and your back and your shoulders, allow room for that expansiveness that constance, that is the air around us, that is the ground beneath us. And the next few breaths, think of preparing yourself as a recipient, for curiosity, for exploration. The next couple of breaths, think of something or someone that you deeply love. Hold on to that feeling that comes in your body, the thoughts that come to your mind when you think about that love. And then, the last couple of breaths, reflect that back into yourself. Then coming back to the room, listen to the sounds outside your room. Feel your body in your chair. Give your shoulder some rolls up your neck a little bit. And join us when you were ready. I think I took us there. I just like we need a little more. A little bit more for today. So thank you for joining me with that. I did want to do a quick recap of what we talked about last time. So last time, we started talking about what does it mean to be seen? How does that feel to be seen, sort of understanding and being aware that we bring different parts of ourselves in different spaces. There are some parts that we purposely put out there, there's some parts that we can't control that are out there for other people to take in. And that there are parts of ourselves that we only share with some people, maybe just our family, maybe just our closest friends. And that there are parts of ourselves that we don't share with anybody. You know, there could be those parts that we choose to stay hidden. And also a recognition that a lot of identity can come with risks and with pain, like erasure, being silenced. So you can't always put what you want out there and have it be received as such. And so. So there's a lot of pieces in there. And I really encourage you if you're joining us for today to go and check those other videos that we recorded in our conversations together. And then I think I'm throwing the mic back to you, Brenda. Right.
Brenda 13:27
Um, thank you for grounding us, physically. But also emotionally, to the threads and multiple threads that we've woven throughout these conversations. And today is especially important. So all the days are important. But this conversation I think hits home. And we've started to bring these themes of how Linet and I identify with our communities in our respective countries of Latin America. I'm from Mexico, and you're from Colombia. And the identifier of a community of a huge cultural community, we have so much in the US, is the Latina and then in - right the Latino Latina community. And then recently there's the Latine, Latinx, Latina - that and we wanted to explore that for ourselves and offer insights, maybe frameworks, maybe call to action, and figure out, not figured out, but really explore the tension of Is it offensive? And is it just semantics? And it's important, because you'll see, hopefully, you'll see that in this conversation in what where we're going to be existing again, it actually touches exactly to what you were saying, which is colonialism, indigeneity, and even anti-Blackness. And so we can go through all these different deeper threads that are important for anyone to know. Because it's not just simple terminology for our community, it really shapes experiences of self and our informs how we connect with others across time and across the way. So it's a really important part for anchoring our conversation and to the why. And a question we have for you all, and for those joining us live or joining us in the recording, but take a moment, hit pause. But our question for you is have you ever felt uncomfortable discussing part of your identity with someone because of its name and its history? You know, and I'll, I'll actually ask that to you Linet to maybe to kick us off, and then we'll explore the forest here.
Linet 16:01
Yeah, I think that's a really good question. I think there's, so there's a certain history in Colombia, when you say I am Colombian, so Columbiana. What does that mean? And I purposely chose what I'm wearing. Right? I have, I actually, I brought up my shirt. So those of you who don't know me personally, oh, I have I brought props. Right. I brought props I brought I also brought one of my favorite hand-knitted bags. Made in Colombia. I have this great- they’re things right. But I think it brings it brings to a greater point how this right, there are some things that we share as Latinos, I have, oh, as I have always had my Columbia bracelet with me. And I bring these things up to start, I think sort of like the first - some of the pieces in the history of what it means to be Colombian and travel outside of Colombia, right? Because “soy Columbiana” in Colombia is going to mean very different things and saying, I am Colombian in the US in different parts of the US is going to be different. If you say I'm Colombian. In Venezuela, it's gonna be different. If you say I'm Colombian, in Europe, different parts of Europe, it's going to be very different. And one of the many, many parts of what Colombia means to different folks and means to me, has to do with history. And there's so much history; we could spend like, maybe a full lifetime discussing the history there. That even just the name, Colombia, right. Colon, Christo a Colon, like we're - that's - it's coming from, like the people that decided what Colombia is called, are not necessarily the people that live there when Cristo al Colon arrived, like, are not necessarily the people that develop the land to where it is now, are not necessarily representative of all the people. Some of the, one of my earliest experiences, talking about myself, as Colombian in the US, was, I remember as a 15 year old, being asked if my dad was a drug dealer, and if the reason I was here was because he dealt cocaine, and whether or not I could hook him up. This was literally something that another teenager said to me. And several years ago, yeah, I'm not 15 anymore. If anybody, if you can see me, I'm not 15 And if you can't see me, I'm a White-passing 36-year-old woman that’s what I am. And in in the sort of late 90s, there is still a lot of association with, in sort of surrounding countries near Colombia, of Colombians with vandalism, with burglary, with theft, it was sort of like very being Colombian meant you were going to be violent. You were uneducated. You were sort of the lesser of the countries in Latin America. Like that was the association, because we had gone through a very intense history. And we're still going through a very intense time with violence has kicked off with la violencia. And there's there's lots of books about it, some that are better than others, but la violencia, so a lot of uprising, actually of the working class and especially farm laborers that were being mistreated by the rich, this sort of very big civil upheaval that ended up molding through into a lot of the conflict that is still you know, less and less prominent, but still around today. Of the guerilla, the guerrilla warfare, and then it ties into the the drug trade and the war against drugs. And there's a lot of issues there with how Colombia politically has worked or hasn't worked with the US in the past and present. And for those of you that are paying attention to news right now, what being Colombian today is like, we're in a huge civil upheaval again, protests going against, we call it like reforma tributaria, which is really a tax proposal by the president that is really just going to further impact low and middle class people that were already suffering from COVID economic effects and health effects. And so it's a lot of, there's still a lot there. There's a lot of stuff that that comes with being Colombian. And so I brought that there to say that when I was in the US, and I was applying for college, because I finished high school in the US, as I was applying for college, you write, okay, I'm Hispanic, like, what does? Okay? Yeah, sure I speak Spanish, but I'm not sure what this means. Like, that's not a race. And I don't identify myself as a race. And in Colombia, you don't, you're not necessarily talking about race all the time, not to say it's not important or that there isn't racism. But you're not necessarily thinking of like, Yes, I'm a Spanish speaker, this is who I am, this is my identity, that's, it's different. And then for me, the first time I saw the expression of Latinos, Latina, and even the current iterations of Latinx, I felt like that is so much better than defining me by a language that was brought over by colonialists that like, destroyed, you know, so much of indigenous culture and people and, and, and history and language. And yeah, so I have mixed, a lot of mixed emotions, and I do feel uncomfortable discussing being Colombian, not because I'm ashamed of being Colombian and not because I'm ashamed of saying, you know, that we can share some, some love or some shared understanding from coming from countries in Latin America, but because of the way it's perceived by others, and the idea of like, okay, then I can put you in this box of “you're not like me,” that's the part that gets uncomfortable. Yeah. How about you?
Brenda 23:59
Um, there are… and I think sometimes, like, very parallel to what you were saying, of first experiences in the US, I think, that is such an important point of origin for me and understanding where I am now, in this work of anti oppression and yeah, decolonization even of myself I mean, that's, that's where I need to start. And that parallel is not knowing how to identify in a new country, is something that anyone even if you travel, if you're trying to understand what's, what are the social identity markers in that country, always, always, always has to do with the history and power dynamic and how that country is built to center some and not others. I think that's really that's not natural, but that is pervasive, and the world and in the US, the part that I struggled most with my identity now now is the part that feels uncomfortable, is actually part of my relationship with with saying and Mexican or, more broadly speaking the part of me that that identity used to identify as a female Latina, I don't ascribe myself to that identity anymore mainly because of its, for me, it's felt a construct that has existed in the US and serves communities that feel attached to that, and members who feel like really excited about that and feel resonance. For me, it's hard to ascribe to that identity, knowing that it reinforces oppression of others in other ways. So it Latino, Latina, Latine, I think, opens a really fruitful conversation about gender and Latin America, about the delayed progress and talking in mainstream, the delayed progress and talking about trans and queer identities in the Spanish language. And I think that that's somewhere that we're, I'm really excited to talk about. To my point is it for me, this identity, Latina, Latino, is close with colonial structures that push anti-Blackness. And in Mexico, there is so much of that still taking place. And so there's a part in which we talk about Latina, Latino, and it's, it mostly centers, white-passing individuals, it centers, certain people of a certain class, it centers, certain experiences of immigration, and others, so it's mostly people who like you and I grew up in a country but moved here, it's people that are light-skinned and people that pass or that are, like, it has a flavor of whiteness, that doesn't feel very comfortable for me, and in a sense of wanting to, maybe that flavor of whiteness is assimilation, or the idea of Latinidad which is, is not, not having even there a broad conversation about indigeneity and anti-Blackness, something of the slave trade, cross-Atlantic slave trade that touched all of these countries all over the world. And so part of me feels conflicted to identify as a female Latino, I don't… And in this moment, I'm not someone that would correct I'm correct and like push away but it's an opportunity for me to just step in and be like, did you know or how about this or ask me how I prefer to identify because I have, so there's that dimension the part that I feel uncomfortable but I have more willingness to explore Is my identity with Mexico. And you brought up some really beautiful parts about your you know, parts of the country that represent that for you. It's so interesting. I wore this as well without really knowing and behind me there's an ofrenda and there’s a ‘mujer con una trenza’ [woman with a braid]. So there's, there's parts of me and you chose to show up today and, which is indicative of parts of ourselves that we choose to not showcase or parts of ourselves that maybe are more celebrated in certain areas than others. And I think for us, in a professional sense, this isn't always celebrated. This isn't always seen as professional. But with Mexico, it there there are spaces, especially in some, in genomes, you know, in DNA, genetics, research in in grassroots and activist spaces that are trying to bring this indigeneity into Mexico. And that feels like such an exploration for me. And something that I've started to take here and there I found this organization called SOMOS (SOMOS Ancestria), which takes your raw data from 23andme If you've given them have data to any of these places, they take the raw data and like, match it with indigenous identities in Mexico. And it's always outstanding. So there's parts of me that I think with this discomfort, there are openings for me to explore, and there's discomfort in, in places where I'm starting to create a separation. But having this conversation is something that is not shared in my family that much, or it's not even talked about in Mexico nonetheless, which reinforces for me this idea of, in Mexico, my family in Mexico, reinforced and to your point, like reinforces for me this idea - this is a very US-based conversation. And, to me, it there's something there, I'm still working with that as to what's been in that conversation what was filtered out? What doesn't get… Yeah, just by virtue of where we live in this this colonized continent.
Linet 31:17
Absolutely. I love all the parts that you brought up. I, oh, my gosh, there's so much there. So I think that's really interesting. Because, you know, when one of the things that I think you spoke to, that I barely touched on that I thought was really great was the anti-Blackness piece. And I have seen both the identity with a nationality use very much in the identity with Latinidad as tools for anti-Blackness. So for those folks joining us, we're getting into Latinidad, Latina, Latinx, Latine, and newsflash Latino, Latina, Latinx, whatever you choose to use that name, it is not a race. So when So, in the anti blackness space, there is a lot of I have seen in Colombia, within Colombia, rejection of proof of racism, so very easy example, during Carnival, which is sort of the Mardi Gras or Fat Tuesday, version, celebration, there's parades, there's, you know, sort of representation of figures that mean different things in different locations. And there's, there is part of the characters of Carnival, that is blackface, like part of the of the Carnival is people putting on blackface and representing this black person that is freed and so it's a joyful, it's a joyful character. You know, much of if any of you are familiar with, oh my gosh, it's escaping me. But the the blackface that was used in the theaters, it's escaping me right now. In theaters in American music and American minstrel shows, there we go, minstrel shows, that sort of portray this, like joyous, you know, you know, slightly dim-witted black person with poor language skills, not very smart, very subservient. There's a lot of parallels there with with this character that comes up in Carnival, and people reject it. They're like, we are not Americans. We are not racist because people that are dark skin and Colombians are just, are Negritos. They're just black people. They're Colombians, just like you and me, and there's a rejection of that there even is racism, even people that are very clearly racist. And I know those people in my family and will say, you know, derogatory things about black people insulting their ability to work, their intellect, their, you know, are they trustworthy even, that is somehow “not racist.” And we are not racist because they're all Colombian, but it's, it's not true. As you mentioned, slavery was a very big part of how Colombia came to be, it was a very big part of, of, you know, even like the erasure, the mass genocide of so many indigenous people in what is now known as Colombia. And was part of the reason why so many slaves were bought brought to this area in order to, you know, cultivate the crops do the manual labor that was necessary to like, create the colonialist economy. And that still impacts us today. So where are black people in Colombia today? They're still not in positions of power. They're still facing very high barriers of entry into jobs there, they get paid less. And this is not something “Oh, that was 10 years ago.” This is now, like I have my cousin-in-law, I suppose. She's, she's more darker-skinned. I guess maybe you could call her Afro Caribbean. Yeah, because she's from the coastal region. But she went into the Capitol, Bogota. That was where I was born. And for those joining my my dad is from Barranquilla, which is a coastal area, which is a lot has a lot more descendants from slaves, and less, less obvious. It's still very black. And it's still, there's still areas like Palenque (San Basilio de Palenque), for example, that still retains some of their, like Yoruba language, some of their Yoruba roots and pieces that they can still connect, and dances and things like that. Not not everywhere, right? Okay. And so it's a little more connected there. But if you go into Bogota, it's very white, and you can even tell in the way people speak, so the way I speak Spanish is the way people in Bogota speak. It's very enunciated it's a little faster spoken, and especially my grandmother would claim it proper Castiliano. So well, there's Yeah. Language for sure. Oh, yeah. And, and so so this, so my, cousin was coming back to, my cousin in law, she came through Bogota, she's an educator and she went to look for a job in Bogota and they no joke, the school. I mean, the job security problem is a whole nother thing. But the school called her up during her trial period was like, you know, up, a parent called a couple of parents have contacted us because they're concerned about you, your skin color and having somebody like you teaching their kids. And this was a, this is the “legit” reason for her being let go. So there there are no laws protecting against racism. None. That's just, it's just a thing that happens. And you, you just, you know, you just kind of like, “okay,” and you move on and and the thing is, that's the problem. And so I love thinking about that with Latinadad because one of, one of the reasons I see in, in connecting to also more Latinos, we have we share this, I'm a Latinx person is a one, I get to talk about our non binary or queer Latinx, folks, right? Because then they will, why do you use X? Why not a like, you're Latina, you're obviously a woman, right? Well, I want to be, right. Because I'm not gonna, like Colombianx. That's not something that we're using yet,, but Latinx is something that is being used and people do recognize and it is an opening. But at least in Colombia, we see a lot in like, I'm thinking of music, like in music, there's like, give me some more Latinos. You know, like there's there's a lot of talk about unifying and there's in even like the political spheres thinking about, you know, the, I forget what the term is in English, but the hold that the US economy and politics has on a lot of countries in Latin America is still very reminiscent of colonialism, right? The US is the one that sets the tone for economic trade agreements. So the ones that set the you know, are, who's gonna get elected? Right? They're the ones like, Okay, go and look up Panama in the history of Panama. Like, why is Columbia who is right next to Panama, why are they not all the same thing? Go go read it, it'll be very informative. You know, this, there's still sort of that, you know, if we're Latinos, hold those together, you know, we can, we can be ourselves as opposed to be under the thumb of US capitalism, US colonialism and all these US things. So that's one part. And I think, definitely in the US, it's talked about a lot because of multiple things. And one of those I think, is the idea to unite in political action. Does it also divide? I think it's, yeah.
Brenda 40:52
Yeah. Yes, because I think, um, thank you for laying that history out. And in Colombia, you, uou gave us a history of economics, capitalism, anti-Blackness minstrel shows In Latin America is prominent. I had a reaction when you were talking about the Carnival character because in Mexico, we have Memãn Pinguãn, who I don't know if it's actually Mexican, but it's another very derogatory, it's a very derogatory cartoon that you can buy, like cutouts for parties, like, it is another one of those characters. And I remember having difficult conversations with my mother. I mean, like, this is absurd. This is very racist than explaining it. She was like, No, it's not. It's endearing. It's funny. It's, it's innocent. Because this character, similar to you where in the threads I want to lift up is anti-Blackness. The way that minstrel shows happen in the US and in Latin America is no coincidence. There's very few coincidences in colonialism. And when there is oppression that takes place it's no accident. And so there's a part here, there's also part about linguisism that you talked about. And those that don't know, I don't have the definition exactly in front of me, I'll do my best to define it. But linguisism is the oppression, that because it can be, you can lose your job if you don't speak properly, it is the way in which like you are audibly perceived. So if you have an accent, especially if you have a second English language learner, it's also linguisism can be experienced, correct me if I'm wrong, but across different regions of the US with Southern, you know, we have stereotype and versus the New Yorker versus the person from Jersey, you know, and these, these, it's an ism because for immigrants and in Latin America, if you don't speak a certain way, you're not going to be taken seriously. And in minstrel characters, blackface characters in Mexico and Latin America, linguisism was huge because then not only is this character black and in, or like derogatory, super exaggerated features, but their Spanish is also broken, their Spanish is not clean, it doesn't make sense. It is, sounds kind of you know, unintelligible, not intelligent. And that's also not not a coincidence and how in, in how we push an anti-Blackness ideology within Latin America. And these two are important, I think, also for experiences in the US where, again, this is why I think of it as a flavor of whiteness because of you, there's a certain type of Latino or Latina that comes to mind that is celebrated that is in pop culture that is also commodified. So it's a double-edged sword in some of these instances about identities that are desired, similar to anti-Asian oppression, anti-Asian sentiment. The double edge of exoticfication and marginalization are bedfellows to communities. Hey, that's a huge tangent, but I wanted to bring the linguisism as another component that in Latin America, and this is important for allies listening who always question, “why is it important for me to learn if it's Latino,” these are the histories that are in the room when we articulate or these are histories that you should just know. In Latin America, Mexico is colonized, Colombia is colonized, there are many countries in Latin America that share Spain as a colonizing force. And Spain in terms of the Spanish language is used as the North Star for being right, proper, and educated. So there within that comes sentiments of that class, within that comes into memes about colorism, within that comes sentiments about Christianity, all three anchors of violence against indigenous community. And so it is important for anyone to know and respect why some people choose one sort of identifier, especially in the Latinx, Latina community, and other people might choose BIPOC or indigenous, because it kind of removes everything that centers the oppression and marginalization that takes place in,nd centers. The true origins of many of these countries, pre-colonial times, and I guess I jumped ahead, but that is my call to action for people listening in, as these things matter, these different iterations of identity in this. from Mexico all the way down to Chile, and the islands, in between, this matters for you to know. Right? For you to understand like the textures of violence and the identities that we carry. And I think it's really hard for, for people in the US there's a decision like to have this conversation with my parents, I think would be, should happen more often. But there is a decision for many immigrant parents to choose to assimilate as a way to survive, as a way to assimilate as a way to pass and have the best outcomes for their children. And so greater context needs to be added here if you encounter elders in a community, really abide by Latino, Latinx, to respect that, because there's something there that, yeah, that might be painful. Or it's just a choice. And that's also great. I wanted to ask if you could define, or what is Hispanic?
Linet 48:13
Right. So the best, I think the easiest way to put it is that Hispanic is a term really, that from my understanding really comes from the US’s decision to make it something on the census. Like this, the way it was sort of adopted in was this way, and it is defined as Spanish-speaking. So it comes from the Latin root of like, what Spanish is, Hispania Hispaniola, Like, that's where it's coming from. And I think actually, when you brought up linguistic discrimination, linguisism, that's really good. And I see our friends from the 559 mural project are in here. And they're one of their co-leaders, Sirina, they said this, she put out an article recently and I wish I'd pulled it up now so I could do it justice. There is a, you know, this tying of that, your Spanish speaker right to this ,that you're a Spanish speaker has to be a part of your identity is utter bullshit, right? Like how could you possibly, you know, do that when you like purposefully erase and destroy language? Right that that's part of like the colonialist mentality, the efforts in anywhere that youth this could be in Canada, this could be in the US, this is in Colombia and Mexico. This like, destroying of the indigenous languages and cultures, the US participated in the exact same thing. And the specific article that I'm thinking of that I can't remember, in full. But there was actually policy introduced in California, I believe in, maybe it was the 70s, to ban teaching a Spanish in public schools. So you weren't allowed to speak Spanish, you weren't allowed to study it. And so bring on to that the history of discrimination of like, you know, dehumanizing people that came into the US without documentation. Late 90s? Oh, my gosh, so it's even more recent. So in the late 90s, this policy, sort of further reinforces not wanting to teach your kids Spanish further reinforces not wanting to talk about it further reinforces that as being something that to be proud of. And so that meant that a lot of a lot of, in our generation grew up without speaking Spanish, even if their parents were, you know, immigrants,are first-generation themselves. So who knows how many generations it was purposely moved out of education? Purposely. You know, it's not just like, Oh, are you getting, you know, discriminated against for a job? It's like, it's in the education, it's in our system. There can be laws, but the reason why the laws are there is because it's so bad. Like, laws don't fix things. Laws are like, this is what we need to aim for. And laws aren't perfect. And I, you know, we're both on the same page that are like, the justice system is messed up, right. So like, our legal system is messed up, you know, so I love that you, you put this piece of like, yeah, I think it's coming all the way back to the beginning of like, believe people, when they tell you who they are, like, believe people, and don't assume and it is subtlety, it is, you know, like, I consider myself and an ally for darker-skinned Latinx folks, or Colombianx folks are, you know, because I know that I have a privilege in that I don't speak with much of an accent, right. I know that I have a privilege with my skin color. And you know, we shouldn't assume, right? That the ideal, the “ideal,” right, the the stereotype of, of what is a Latina, we shouldn't assume what, you know, if you say you're Mexican-American, do you automatically have to eat tamales and know about hot sauce, and I don't know, margaritas and speak Spanish? Like, no, it's just like these, these are social constructs. And identity is about relationship and, and history. And I want to - I took us out there, but I'm bringing us back to opportunity. This is an opportunity, we're inviting you to explore what if you never felt uncomfortable about some part of your identity, take this opportunity to take this chance to explore others, take this chance to question why, you know, in the US most, so many people are monolinguist, they don't learn other languages outside of English, when other colonialist countries like the Netherlands, for example. They're often multilingual, you know, so there's, just ask, and I think I want to throw it back to you for like our last question that we have to the audience and to close because, like you said at the beginning, this is a whole gigantic mountain to unpack, and what we're doing is just sort of lightly touching on all these different juicy bits. And there's opportunity there's believing, there's trust, there's listening, there's exploring, and there's respecting and all those pieces are part a part of what we what we can do, what we would encourage you all to do moving forward.
Brenda 54:36
Yes, I want to say one thing about Hispanics. Similar to Latina, Latino, it is of course, it is a lifelong understanding, just like white allies need to continuously understand what the evolution - language is trying to catch up to experiences that have taken place, histories that are that are being formed. And so language evolves, the best way and it's always shaped by people. Language and history are always having a conversation with each other. So don't get discouraged when things change BIPOC, Black indigenous People of Color may, you know, we might shed that term and have something that's a little, that's more reflective of people's experiences. And I think that's something that's really beautiful and our role and responsibility as allies to anyone is to understand and hear the voices from communities most affected, and that Hispanic is one of them that I have found with folks especially- So Hispaniola, you named it, Hispaniola, Nueve Spania, was coined, was for the Dominican island that shares Haiti and the Dominican Republic. That is the designated term for Hispaniola and a new Hispaniola is in itself, Spain saying like New England, here in the US. And so there are people that are shoving that down the toilet intentionally as Hispanic the term because it is still the colonizers’ way of erasing differences within indigeneity, and then marking, like excavating land, to create and reinforce those differences through capitalism and slavery, and religion and political matters. So I just wanted to share that a little bit more as to why some folks really push away from certain terms. It's because again, language is - we're done with that. Some people are really over that and no longer align with that term, because it's harmful, because it's oppressive, because it erases what people are experiencing now, which is simultaneous healing, and liberation work, and activism, and advocacy work. So language is really important. It's not just semantics, which answers the trick question at the beginning of the slide. Okay. I'll pass it to you.
Linet 57:33
Well, actually, I was hoping you would talk a little bit about one of the questions that we brought up together is - sort of, there's, you’re positing there's a lot of language, terms can change. So what if you are a white person and you're trying to be an ally, but there's like, there are so many terms all the time, right? Like even people with disabilities, there are two camps on how they want to be called, some people are like, “I am a person with a disability.” And someone’s like, “no, I am a disabled person. This is part of me.”
Brenda 58:11
Or “alcohol addict” and “person in recovery.”
Linet 58:13
Yeah. Oh, great example, that, you know, there are so many pieces of identity, there are so many ways to talk about different people. There are so many different ways that even people that identified with a certain term might have shed in the past, like you're talking about, like maybe, I don't know, maybe 20, 30 years ago, being like, “Yes, I'm Hispanic” feels right. But now it doesn't, right. And so as a, say, a white person, or maybe someone that's, that's straight, like me, coming to like, Well, is it queer? Do I cite all of the alphabet for LGBTQIA++, and then some, what is NB, is it nonbinary? Like how do I even know? Where do I get it? Obviously, I'm putting up a question here. How do you know what the right term is to choose? How do you even possibly keep up with all of this?
Brenda 59:10
Well, there's no passiveness to learning - change doesn't happen in isolation. So you have to take an active role that this work is personal transformation, which means if you want to be an ally to the community, which check whether you're being paternalistic, or savior-y, in that even instance, but if you are being an accomplice to social justice, movement, meaning a world in which oppression is dismantled, you have to be willing to change in that process. This isn't something that your allyship is outsourced and then never touches you. So when BIPOC, or like People of Color, it used to be colored people. And then that got turned on its head by community saying, actually, we're going to reclaim this because we're having a moment of liberation and a feeling, People of Color claiming to be, then Black than African American, then Black again. So there's all these things that tell the story for you, as an ally, to understand the traces of history, the victories, the liberation work that you can support, it is vital to understand and trace this history. Otherwise, you're going in, as you're saying, like, very passively and never - only doing more harm than good. That's on a racial, that's on an every term, on an on a term of on the basis of queer, that sexuality and gender, welcome to a new opportunity to look at your world, like gender and sexuality shape, how we know ourselves, or knowledge and connect and move around the world. So there is sacredness in being able to be a part of those communities. And being a supporter of that community, we are all affected by white supremacy, some of us have a really intimate role with it, and some of us are really harmed by it. If you have an intimate part of it, you have way more to lose. So there's a big risk, but you have a responsibility to keep up with language. And that's surface level, you have a responsibility to learn history, you have a responsibility to know what's taking place. And not everyone is ready for that because they want their allyship to be 1,2, 3 bullet points, and checklists, which will only reinforce compliance and not solidarity. And if you're doing that, you're getting frustrated, have one millisecond of frustration, but take that as an opportunity to reflect. And that's self-accountability. Honestly, that's an opportunity to be self-accountable and be like, actually, I don't know if I should be frustrated. That's something that we practice in our cohorts. We had one member be like why I feel like they keep adding letters to the LGBTQ_community. It's just an alphabet soup. Someone else at the dog park said that, I’m like, “I'm off the clock.” But it is inherent if you're signing up, and if you want to call yourself an ally, they're nonnegotiables. And one of them is understanding how subtle indirect oppression takes place. And getting the right language to get to the right, creative solutions with others. That's a lot of points. Hope that answers that. Yeah,
Linet 1:03:15
I think that's great. And I picked those examples on purpose because I've seen them pop up in different groups, both written and verbal. And my recommendation is like, be in relationship about it. Much like a Brenda is saying like, listen, listen, listen, it's an opportunity. You know, a lot of folks have written about this. A lot of like, blogs, there's podcasts. There's lots of folks that are putting out their energy to help other people relate, to help bring in that allyship, the power because this isn't something that well BIPOC people are deciding they're going to be BIPOC now and so they're just going to take care of themselves because there's no organizing marches. Yeah.
Brenda 1:04:06
We get together. And we have a meeting of running, meeting notes. And we're like, “and adjourn, BIPO.”
Linet 1:04:15
Yeah. Did you come to BIPOC Tuesday last week. I missed it. You missed them. And, you know, there's queer Wednesday, right?
Brenda
I went to that one. I got my schedules confused.
Linet
I didn't get invited. So okay, just jokes aside, it's like it's not, yeah, it's an active thing. And it is work and it's out there. And you know, if you have like, you're like, oh, I have that one friend. That one friend doesn't have to answer all your questions, you can do some work. And you can listen. And you can ask you can say, hey, you know, I have something that is a really silly question. Probably. I tried to research about it I, you know, whatever. And I just wanted to know, like, for example, you talk about yourself as being queer when we're hanging out. Is that something that I could talk about when I'm introducing you to somebody else? Like, you can ask that that is a perfectly fine thing to ask. Like, and just be - and don't ask it in public - just ask, but ask respectfully. And if they say “no, like, I'm not out, you know, professionally” or whatever, then you respect that. And you ask, it's always a good move to ask. And there's different, yes, there are different ways of asking, that's like a whole nother thing. But learn. Yeah, learn, listen and ask. Yeah. I think I think that closes us for today. Brenda, do you want to bring us - this isn't a bow. This, we opened the floodgates. And we're showing it to y'all and I hope you'll take this as an opportunity to explore
Brenda 1:06:15
Thank you. Yeah, thank you Linet, I want to also share a huge appreciation for our forming relationship, for oyr conversation. And so that's on a personal level, I think, as folks in the anti-oppression dDEI space, this is collaboration, this is partnership. And it's a way that I that really appreciate it, to disrupt how business usually operates, which is in silos. So I, this is a huge value to the work that we're in and I really appreciate you. Taking the time to close, I'm feeling really energized. So I don't know if I can bring this down for the centered ways. Um, what I will do is, maybe just let the energy be shook up. Take a deep breath. And exhale. Take a deep breath in, moving our arms way up, really stretching it. Over here, exhale, leave them up. You’re gonna take an eight, inhale and make fists, exhale, next round, you're gonna just get up bring them up, that's a way to shake that off. Yeah, thank you all so much for joining us today. Check out @UBP_stem, that is the Unconscious Bias Project. We have Linet here from Unconscious Bias Project and check them out. They're doing a great series called Breaking Bread. Information will be in the captions and I hope you all have a good day. I'll stay connected. Bye.
Linet 1:08:26
Bye, gracias Brenda.